Curse

Evilsod · Jun 01, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

1) Its against rules
2) Theres no reason why we need to know who did it.

Yeah i got that about 5 posts about, thanks for stating the bleeding obvious.

Why waste your time waiting for a PUG when you can do it with henchman? Its like sitting in Ember Camp watching all those people go 'LFG to Capture Charge' for 20 minutes. When in that time they could've took the henchman and ran over to the nearest boss spawn 30 times in the hope he spawns.

Henchman do get you into bad habits though... 9/10 times on Ring of Fire i can run down the edge of the wall and avoid fighting the first Ether Seal since the hench usually follow in a close line if you do it right. Try telling a pug to do the same thing. You can guarantee 1 of the morons will run so far from the wall he somehow lures the Drakes, never mind gets hit by the Ether Seal.

SpeedyKQ · Jun 01, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I'm a big fan of pugging. Sometimes you get an amazing group and blast through the mission. Sometimes you get a uh, suboptimal group, and barely squeak by, but that can be fun too. The unpredictability is good times.

Yeah, the things that people complain about DO happen, but not all that often. Very few monks are secretly smiters, very few warriors go aggro'ing like crazy.

And yes, the key to pugging with a mesmer is to make your own groups. Hell, my wife and I, first time through Factions, played with a mesmer and *gasp* an assassin. We didn't even try to get into any other groups, just started them ourselves, and had very few problems. Besides, that way you get to star in all the cutscenes.

felinette · Jun 01, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I've been in good and bad PUGs. I don't care if someone does something stupid that causes a party wipe--it's only a game, and it can be quite entertaining. But what I can't stand is people who join a PUG, then almost as soon as you start, go afk. "Pizza just arrived." Well, if you knew you'd ordered freaking pizza, you had no business getting into a group. If you knew mommy was preparing dinner, you had no business getting into a group. The phone is ringing--so what? There isn't a law saying you have to answer it. If you're that tied to the phone, sit next to it and don't get into a group. Jesus.

But I agree with evilsod. I don't understand people who waste time spamming LFG. Take hench--they're better than most PUGs, anyway. The only thing most PUGs will do is speed up a mission, but the time spent finding a PUG in the first place balances that out. I've also found that henching is 1000x easier if you have just one other real human along with you. So sometimes I'll invite someone spamming LFG to come along with me and henchies, and I've received similar invites the rare time I've been LFG.

The only time I don't hench is if there's something about the mission design that makes henching more difficult than it should be--there's much more of this in Factions than Prophecies; in fact, I can't think of any missions in Prophecies to which that would apply.

SpeedyKQ: It's easy for mesmers to get into a group in Factions, or at least it was when Factions was first released. My mesmer had no problems getting into groups and often received invites. The same thing is now happening to my Tyrian mesmer over in Tyria because of the lack of players problem.

Rayinzar · Jun 01, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Well if it's just a phone, they normally come back in about 5 mins and catch up as long as everyone else can be a little patient

I don't know about everyone else, but other than the smaller quests, and the very earliest ones, I've never bothered henching anything. If I want to play a solo game I can always switch for something that won't hog the computer. It's a lot of fun, and often comical as long as most people (and most people usually do) try to not have a hissy fit when something goes wrong.

Jetdoc · Jun 01, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

I don't understand people who waste time spamming LFG. Take hench--they're better than most PUGs, anyway.

I have very rarely used any henchmen in PvE because I want actual human interaction. Yes, the PuG's may be a bit less efficient (i.e. stupid) than the henchies, but in the end the human interaction is much more enjoyable.

Evilsod · Jun 01, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Well this post would go in the 'Why PUGS hate monks' thread but its closed.

I think this is EXACTLY the sort of monk everyone hates. He was the bonder.

The first time the healer dies he starts ranting that all the casters should be moving and not getting attacked... which lets face it he was standing in Firestorm so its obvious.
Next group, a couple of us die. He starts ranting and calling everyone RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOwits (because hes obviously the smartest guy in the world). He proved he was hte smartest guy in the group by asking 'Who doesn't have bonds' when by looking at the party menu you could see the ele wasn't bonded from the lack of enchantment.
When we get to outside the Tower, he starts ranting again. Followed by the 'lets see how far you get without a bonder' and leaves.

Thats what you get in PUGS. I'm sure 1 of the eles was looking after her Survivor title too. She was kiting.... walking backwards away from a Berserkers, that aint gonna get you very far... and left on low health.

felinette · Jun 01, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayinzar

Well if it's just a phone, they normally come back in about 5 mins and catch up as long as everyone else can be a little patient

Which isn't good enough for missions like Vizunah Square or when you're escorting suicidal NPCs who are running around according to a script.

Quote:

Yes, the PuG's may be a bit less efficient (i.e. stupid) than the henchies, but in the end the human interaction is much more enjoyable.

Well, I've been out with quite a number of PUGs, and I can't say there's been a huge amount of human interaction. And when there is, it's often people bitching about something someone else has done or spamming what they're wielding and other crap like that. Usually, the PUG just rushes through the mission and moves on. One thing I like about henchies is that you can take your time and fully explore an area. This doesn't apply to when I'm out with guildies--I'm talking about PUGs.

Gwenhywar · Jun 01, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut Zeke

Another bad thing about PUGs, they don't want us Mesmers! [/cries]

You know, to console you - yesterday someone kicked my (healing!) Rit from the group, and did not kick my guildie Mesmer

. Of course, it was the kind of group that probably still wasn't ready to leave after our next group had already completed the mission with master's, but just to show that not always mesmers are most hated =p.

Oh, and PUGs are always so amusing ... sometimes I wonder how it's possible for this many people to have played through half the game already and still have 0 clue about how to play.

~Railin~

Kern Wolf · Jun 01, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Van Der Sloot

I always do missions with PUGS. Just a few days ago I joined a group in the Ring of Fire just to help out a fellow guildy. We failed miserably, because our group did not lure carefully, and simply rushed in towards the seals expecting our hench-healers to be able to handle that. But I did not find it a bad experience.

In fact, not at all. It's nice to teach some of the more inexperienced players how to do missions you've already done like a zillion times... and if the pug fails the mission, not a problem at all. It's the fun that counts. We had some very interesting battles. The lack of experience in the group made the trip so much more challenging. To me, pug's are always more fun than henchies. Sure there's the occasional whiner or bot, but most of my experiences with pugs are good.

I had just finished "The Eternal Grove" mission, and found myself in Unwaking Waters (Kurzick). I looked around; there must have been maybe just 10-12 people there. I start typing, "I can't believe it's this empty here", and I start getting replies of "Believe it", and "Been like this for a while".
I thinking to myself, "3 more missions and I'm done with the main plot, but I'll be here forever waiting for more people to show". "Then someone types, "Wanna try it anyway", THEN everyone starts, "worst we can do is die and come back here". I think 2 PUGS formed out of everyone there. They may not have been the most balanced groups, but BOTH groups not only did (and completed) that mission, we did the rest, and finished the game.
I meet a lot of good people in PUGs, and I like the fact that PUGs often surprise EVERYONE with a successful mission completion.

I won't give up on them; to me, they're half the fun of the game.

Gwenhywar · Jun 01, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Take hench--they're better than most PUGs, anyway. The only thing most PUGs will do is speed up a mission, but the time spent finding a PUG in the first place balances that out.

Only problem that some missions do need real people, especially to complete them with masters reward. Gyala Hatchery for example - need at least 3-4 real people to carry smoke canisters. Eternal Grove - need to be able to split in 2 groups, and henchies are kinda bad at that. And then some missions just need a bigger damage output than what henchies can do, unless you're not interested in completing them with masters.

Forming decent PUGs isnt that hard. I usually just tell people what I want them to do, if they don't react to my questions/comments anyhow, they obviously are not reading team chat -> kick. If I know we need interrupts, or traps, I'll make sure the ranger has them. If we have 3-4 rangers or warriors on team, I'll ask the necro to go orders instead the overused MM for bigger damage output. Most people are cooperative enough when they sense a leader that knows what to do to complete the mission, and will readily adapt their bars to best match with others in the group. Of course, when someone gives me intelligent reasons why they don't want to change their bar, it's fine - so long as I can sense it's a reasonable player behind that character.

Quajai · Jun 01, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

I have to admit I've had a lot of good times in PUGS. I've played all 6 professions through Prophecies with mostly PUG's or at least partial PUG's where I had one or two guild members and the rest were pick up. For the most part it's been fun or I wouldn't have played all 6 professions.

It depends on your attitude mostly. I just try to remember that all in all it is just a silly game. I really enjoy when people are communicating and joking and just out to have a good time. Those type of groups are always fun.

It's a bit harder when things go bad and people are freakin, whining and crying about it. It's also annoying when you get those people that have to have the mission go perfectly their way or they start complaining or worse just leave the group. I've found that there are more than one way to beat the missions. Yes, even places like Thunderhead.

Jas · Jun 01, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Yesterday me and two friends decided to try out what would come out if we just picked up first 5 people for THK...

I had my monk (healing), my other friend was MM and the other a trapper.

I called out that first 5 people to send self-invite would be accepted to join one of the weirdest groups ever to do THK...

Quite soon we had a team of 8... 3 Warriors came along right away, another MM and an Ele joined us a few seconds later.

And guess what, that was one awesome group. We really owned the bad guys - even if one of the W/Mo's left after being criticized for aggroing unwanted opponents. I think that if we just would have started with doing the Bonus, it would have been done as well...

For me, that was so far the best PUG I've ever had. And I have had some during my time around.

Thanks again for those who were there, it was most fun

Helll is for Heroes · Jun 01, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

in a guild group, when we are 7/8 or something, the PUGger, imo, ragequit 90% of the time.

felinette · Jun 01, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

Only problem that some missions do need real people, especially to complete them with masters reward.

True in Factions, and I wish Anet would fix that. It seems that some of the missions are designed so that they'll be difficult to hench. Yes, it's an online game blah, blah, blah, but sometimes there just aren't enough people around, or they want an MM dressed in a red outfit and that's all they want. As far as masters goes, I don't give a crap about that. Timed bonuses have no place in PvE, IMO.

Quote:

Forming decent PUGs isnt that hard. I usually just tell people what I want them to do.

That's fine if you want to lead. I don't want to lead missions I'm doing for the first time or that I did a while back and hardly remember.

Quote:

Yesterday me and two friends decided to try out what would come out if we just picked up first 5 people for THK...

Reminds me of a PUG I did Hell's Precipice with--6 warriors and 2 monks, and we had a blast. Also a group I did The Wilds with--4 eles, a monk, and a mesmer. Those are fun. It's boring to get into a cookie-cutter group where everyone sleepwalks through a mission. Hardly an accomplishment.

I agree that when you have a good PUG, it's a lot of fun, but unfortunately, most PUGs aren't good, and it often takes too long to form them, especially when some of the players insist on human monks. I tend to PUG it when I want to blow through a mission quickly, or for those Factions missions where henching is more difficult than it should be.

Tijger · Jun 01, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

PUG's can be good, PUG's can be bad. Same as people..oh wait..PUG's are people!

Try to let that simple truth sink in and stop whining about PUG's, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you dont, big deal, consider it a life lesson.

Swinging Fists · Jun 01, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kern Wolf

I had just finished "The Eternal Grove" mission, and found myself in Unwaking Waters (Kurzick). I looked around; there must have been maybe just 10-12 people there. I start typing, "I can't believe it's this empty here", and I start getting replies of "Believe it", and "Been like this for a while".

Yeah, the ghost towns are a problem towards the end of the game. On the Luxon side, it's Gyala Hatchery on. Barely any non-AFK monks to be found in the last 4 missions. I hope this is because the game is still young and people haven't gotten this far. But I'm afraid when C3 comes out, it will be nearly impossible to finish Factions anymore. I hope ANet takes a look at the thinning city populations in areas that are required to complete the storyline - not to mention the useless areas like Jade Quarry that people just don't even bother with. JQ is becoming a waste of development, while the ghost town storyline mission locations are going to cause a problem with people no longer bothering to play a game that they can't finish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kern Wolf

I like the fact that PUGs often surprise EVERYONE with a successful mission completion.

Due to the lack of monks in Gyala Hatchery a few days ago, a PUG I was in decided to just take the hench healer. Mind you, this is a mission where the young turtles have to be kept alive to complete the mission and the hench monks will not heal them.

We may have had a Rit, but I don't think so. I think our MM used heal area to heal them, and we had 2 ele's using ward against melee, and firestorm to get them to scatter. We just adjusted our skills to do the best we could, and somehow we made it through with expert's - we saved 3 turtles. One of my more memorable PUG surprises.

Zephyr Jackson · Jun 01, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

the only good pug i have ever had is when i did thk with my ranger, a rank 9 guy was making the group so we ahd some good things, we split 2/6 with the 2 trappers trapping the north bridge and the group of 6 camping the stairs

Alcazanar · Jun 01, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

get good groups?
then you realise that the warriors(wammos) go frenzy

but i use PUG all the time so sometimes you are
lucky and sometimes they are better than guildies with TS/vent

myself i prefer solo

Cjlr · Jun 01, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

PUGs... Good ol' PUGs. I must admit to a certain fondness to them, if only because I always need to resort to them because my guild is small and lazy and unable to field a competent (or extant) team of more than one on any sort of regularity.

I was doing Thirsty River on my Ranger a couple days ago. I was group leader because I always seem to have problems being chosen for groups (and it doesn't matter what character; I've had this happen to my Monk!) and I took the first people that showed interest. We ended up with Henchie Monks each time, too. It took five tries. In those first four I never got past the first fort, and never had more than five people left when we got to it. The fifth time? Magic. Beautiful group synergy. Someone left (of course, the bastards out there), but we got through with no problems whatsoever.

This other time I was doing Nolani with my Mesmer. We got to Yak's Bend, and two of the group members prompty left. I picked up some quests, and zoned outside. Little did I realize the Necromancer who I'd done the mission with had tagged along. We proceeded to clear the entire zone without saying a word. If that ain't PUG magic, I dunno what is.

And a big congratulation to the people who've posted in this thread so far. I've read through (albeit quickly) and caught nary a sight of the hideous grammatical blasphemy that is the oh-so-dreaded PUG's. A (non-)sight for sore eyes, that is.

Kook~NBK~ · Jun 01, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I use PUG's all the time. And I've found that the time of day makes a huge difference in how well a PUG will do. In the evenings, I've had about a 90% success rate with PUGS. In the afternoons, it's about 50%.

When it comes to Skill Capping, I'll NEVER join a "Skill Capping" group. (Y'all can probably guess why. LOL) I grab my henchies and head out. The only time I'll get into a PUG to cap a skill is if I've found it extremely difficult to get it done with Henchies, which has only happened twice - Willa the Unpleasant and Undead Rurik. And I will never, EVER bail on a mission group once I've gotten my skill capped.